爱华网【译文-中文】[黑丝专题] [黑丝首飞——印度+巴基斯坦 高水平评论]
【原文-印度】印度 巴基斯坦 门户网站、军事论坛分类翻译贴
【译文来源】：PTF
【翻译作者】：solar115
【联名作者】：Allen 康康Tainy
译文导读：在美防长访华之际，黑丝带首飞成功，立时成为国内外热议话题。我们的邻居印度和巴基斯坦的反应自然也都是很强烈。为此，我们特意在印巴两国多个门户网站、军事论坛搜集相关评论，从数千条评论中挑选了一些比较有代表性的列出来翻译。不同的网站聚集的是不同的人群，有的欢乐有的深刻，不妨看看他们对黑丝带首飞成功都有什么样的评论。
评论集4印度国防信息（Bharat-Rakshak）
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com
【译者注：这是印度军事网站财团的主页，通过该站点可了解印度陆军、海军、空军、核力量、导弹部队和航天力量的现状与发展。该网站人气很足，水平也比较高，类似于国内的飞扬超大鼎盛等专业军坛，非TX、ZH或者WY、KD。】
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3827&start=3920
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5784&start=40
【译者注：原帖是关注中国军事的长贴，但在j-20曝光后回帖迅速攀升，十几天内回复超过1000条，原帖达到100页上限不得不另开新楼。因此首飞评论跨越前后两贴，挑选了30条较典型的评论，一般情况下不选中国人的回复】
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DavidD
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201109:54
The plane's in the air!
飞机升空了
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shiv
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201110:08
引用：
It didn't seem touse afterburner for take off. It's now circling theairfield
看起来没开加力就起飞了。现在飞机绕机场盘旋。
Well done. In factwhen I was critical of that video - it was because I could not seeany after burner. But that is only a curiosity. Afterburner is notneeded for flight or take off anyway.
Need to se photosand videos or I will say you Chinese arelying!
干得好。实际上我对现有视频很不满——因为我看不见任何加力。不过这只是好奇，起飞和飞行过程中开加力都不是必须的。
必须要有图片和视频，否则我会说你们中国人在撒谎！
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Sid
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201110:37
BRFite
Joined: 19 Mar 200613:26
Posts: 297
Second fotu
*too late. alreadyposted*
third fotu. its damnwide as compared to slim trim J10. Its internal weapon payload mustbe off the roof.
来迟了，有人抢先发图了
第三张图，比起J10来说真TM宽啊，它的内部弹仓载弹量必定顶天了……
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Top
Singha
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201112:09
BRFOldie
the ungainly undercarriage door is the only sore spot in looksdept...else it looks nice black and menacing like a SR71 blackbirdsbrother of sorts.
丑陋的起落架舱门是外观上仅有的瑕疵……此外，这黑色真帅，邪恶有如SR71，黑鸟家族兄弟
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Philip
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201112:42
One must take one's hat off to the PRC and its single-mindedness ofpurpose.While we have just cleared our LCA of 4th-gencpability-that too which will only get final clearance in servicein 2013,China has tested its 5th-gen stealth fighter for the firsttime.We are at least a decade behind the PRC in terms of designingand building one's own aircraft,but are trying hard to close thegap/leapfrogging into the rarified atmosphere of stealth with theJV with Russia for the 5th-gen fighter,already being tested.Thisshould enable us to put into service our 5th-gen stealth fighterfirst,followed in due course by the AMCA,ambitions which now seemsto parallel the US's approach which has two stealth fighters forthe future,the F-22 Raptor and the JSF.
The main challengefor the IAF will be the rapid induction of new PRC fighters intothe PAF,as China can build aircraft far faster than we can-theLCA's production being only "10 a year",as mentioned officiallyyesterday.
大家都为中国和它的专注而脱帽致敬。此时，我们还只是刚刚把4代的LCA搞利索——而且要在2013年才算形成战斗力；而中国已经开始测试5代机了。在设计和制造自己的战斗机方面，我们至少落后中国10年。而是我们正在尽力拉近距离，通过和俄罗斯合资搞已经开始测试了的5代机，跃入隐形战机的境界。这会让我们能有自己的5代机服役，若AMCA能即使跟进，那我们的雄心可比美帝，他们在未来有两种隐形战机：F22和F35
对印度空军来说，最主要的威胁是巴基斯坦空军能迅速引进的新式中国战斗机。中国造飞机的速度比我们远远快多了——按照昨天官方的说法，LCA的生产率只有“每年10架”。
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wrdoswrote:
Two new pics ofJ20:
One can see theconvergent exhaust nozzle.
两张新图，可以看到收缩的尾喷口
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DavidD
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201113:09
I doubt Pakistan canafford the J-20!
Also, in the picswrdos posted, it seems like the plane flew with domesticengines.
我怀疑巴基斯坦是否负担得起J-20
此外，从照片上看，貌似装的是国产发动机。
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indranilroy
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201113:12
引用
Philipwrote:
One must take one'shat off to the PRC and its single-mindedness of purpose.While wehave just cleared our LCA of 4th-gen cpability-that too which willonly get final clearance in service in 2013,China has tested its5th-gen stealth fighter for the first time.We are at least a decadebehind the PRC in terms of designing and building one's ownaircraft,but are trying hard to close the gap/leapfrogging into therarified atmosphere of stealth with the JV with Russia for the5th-gen fighter,already being tested.This should enable us to putinto service our 5th-gen stealth fighter first,followed in duecourse by the AMCA,ambitions which now seems to parallel the US'sapproach which has two stealth fighters for the future,the F-22Raptor and the JSF.
The main challengefor the IAF will be the rapid induction of new PRC fighters intothe PAF,as China can build aircraft far faster than we can-theLCA's production being only "10 a year",as mentioned officiallyyesterday.
Since you forgot tomention, I shall mention it. The officials said that they will beproducing at "10 a year". This can be increased "considerably" ifdesired.
鉴于你忘了提到，我必须说明一下，官方说生产率是一年10架，但如果需要这个速度可以“大幅”加快。
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Kanson
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201113:13
Well its very niceto see the very well orchestrated J-20 introduction and its firstflight. Goes into the aviation history as remember-able moment formore than one reason. Shows the Chinese persistence whether inexploding the nuclear bomb or the first flight of Stealth fighterto reach that status of one among of the firsts.Kudos!
哦，非常高兴能看到组织得如此之好的J-20介绍及其首飞。多方面的原因使之能作为航空史中值得记忆的亦可。这显示了中国人的恒心，不论是研发核弹还是隐形战机的首飞，都是跻身首批先驱者之列。光荣！
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kit
looks that the J20is a bomb truck with that wing span probably carry more than theMKI, and its headon rcs less as well ?
貌似J-20是架有着如此翼展的炸弹卡车，很可能比su-30MKI载弹量还大，而且前向RCS还更小？
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Kit,your analysisappears to be spot on with some western analysts.
kit，你的观点就和这个西方分析很类似
http://the-diplomat.com/2011/01/07/chin ...dium=email
Over-hyped StealthJet
January 07,2011
吹嘘过头的隐形战机
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Philip
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201114:01
David ,I agree withyou.How can he evaluate PLAF maintenance capability? What aboutweaponry? The PRC have made huge strides in missile tech from AWSTand other western media reports,plus,the PLAF will soon haveseveral of its own AWACS/AEW aircraft flying.To my mind,the PRCplans to overwhelm its opposition anywhere through superiornumbers,in the air,on the ground and on and under the sea.NumbersDO matter and superior weapon systems by a PRC opponent cannot beeverywhere at the same time.We've already had studies showing howvastly superior numbers of PLAF Flankers can neutralise USAF F-22soperating out of Guam in ops closer to the PRCcoastline/Taiwan.Adding J-20s to its large numbers of Flankers willonly complicate the US's task even more.
David,我同意你的观点。他凭什么评论解放军空军的后勤能力？武备？根据西方媒体的说法，中国在导弹技术方面进步巨大。另外，解放军空军即将拥有自己的预警机。在我看来，中国打算用数量的方式在各个领域都压倒任何对手，空中，地面，水下。数量绝对是管用的，而中国的对手不可能在同一时间任何位置都有更先进的武器系统。我们已经有研究说明，在关岛以外更靠近中国海岸线或者台湾的战场上，大量的解放军J-11系列战机是如何能抗衡美军F-22机群的。再加上j-20，美军的任务会更加困难。
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shiv
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201114:37
引用：
A newvideo
http://www.56.com/u45/v_NTc3NTI4NTA.html
56网的视频
Comments:
1) J-20 takeoffwithout afterburner as David pointed out
2) The ailerons canbe seen working.
3) The two seat J-10(not J-20) is in the air 12 seconds after the burner lightsup.
我的看法
1.j-20起飞不用开加力，正如David所说
2.副翼可以看出来在动作
3.双座的j-10在启动后12秒升空
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ChristopherSidor
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201116:59
Does India have thecapability of detecting this 5th generation fighter of PLAAF onceit starts flying over Tibet and/or attempts to enter our airspacein north east or north western Himalayas?
当解放军空军的5代机飞临西藏或者试图进入我们东北部、西喜马拉雅的领空时，印度有能力探测到吗？
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geeth
Post subject: Re: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201117:32
I never knew it isthat simple to make a stealth plane! How come the Russians withtheir vast experience were labouring for solong..?
我从不知道，原来搞隐形战机那容易啊！那为什么俄国人有着丰富的经验却要折腾那么久？
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johnny_m
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 11 Jan2011 20:42
No weapon baysmeaning there is some serious work to be done on that. I am withPhilip we need to focus on the FGFA as of now and increaseproduction capability at HAL.
The plane is justtoo big for PAF to even consider it.
没有弹仓意味着还有很多艰苦的工作要做。我赞同philip，我们需要从现在开始专注于FGFA，并增强HAL的生产能力。
这飞机对巴基斯坦空军来说太大了，想都别想。
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johnny_m
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 11 Jan2011 21:26
引用
Quote:
Johnny_m - T-50 isalready flying!! Why do you think that India signed up forPAK-FA?
T-50已经飞过了！你觉得印度为何签约买PAK-FA？
Yes but we are notgetting the Vanila T 50 the FGFA will only fly in 2017 and we arelooking at 2020s for Induction. China can make Planes at a fasterrate than both India and Russia, HAL will have its hands full withMRCA, LCA MK2 and a host of other programmes, serious measures areto be taken to increase rate of production as well as giving moreemphasis to FGFA, Russians almost never deliver on time unlesspushed hard.
是的，但我们还没拿到T50。FGFA会在2017年首飞，要等等2020年后才会服役。中国造飞机的速度比印俄都快，而HAL的资源会被MRCA、LCAMK2以及其他项目占得满满的。必须加强措施加快生产率，同时还要更加强调FGFA。如果不给俄国人强大的压力，他们从不准时交货。
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Singha
Post subject: China Military WatchPosted: 11 Jan 201121:50
there is probablyroom for a smallish internal bay with 4-6 AAMs (the F22 carries 6).the closely spaced engines rule out a second tandembay.
I am sure stealthweapons station could be developed for the innermost pylon of CFTarea for smaller wvr weapons or maybe change the game and carry bigaams there too.
应该有空间布置一个较小的内置弹仓，容纳4-6枚空空导弹（F-22装6枚）。窄距布置的发动机排除了串列第二弹仓的可能性。
我确定，隐形战机可以在保形油箱的区域设计内置挂架挂载较小的格斗弹，或者可以试试颠覆传统在那挂载大型空空导弹。
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Vivek K
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 11 Jan2011 22:08
Johnny_m - I'm surethat the J-20 development is what made GOI (generally takes decadesto buy one aircraft) decide quickly on the PAK-FA. Please do notforget that by 2017 there will be LCAs, MMRCAs (125 - 200),upgraded M2k, upgraded Mig-29s, plus Jaguars and of course the MKI(270+). So India will not be defenceless at the time. These will besupported by 5 Phalcon AWACs and the indegenous AEWC plus Akashbatteries for AD.
回复johnny，我确信j-20的成功会让印度政府（通常需要几十年才买一架飞机）在PAK-FA上迅速作出决定。别忘了，到2017年，我们会有LCA，MMRCA（125-200架），升级版的M2000,升级版的mig-29，加上美洲虎，当然还有su-30mki（270架以上）。所以，印度到那时可不会毫无防御能力。而且这些机群会得到5架法尔康预警机、国产的预警机以及akash导弹阵地的支援，以获取制空权。
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Cain Marko
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 11 Jan2011 23:52
BRFite
引用
Vivek K wrote:
Johnny_m - I'm surethat the J-20 development is what made GOI (generally takes decadesto buy one aircraft) decide quickly on the PAK-FA. Please do notforget that by 2017 there will be LCAs, MMRCAs (125 - 200),upgraded M2k, upgraded Mig-29s, plus Jaguars and of course the MKI(270+). So India will not be defenceless at the time. These will besupported by 5 Phalcon AWACs and the indegenous AEWC plus Akashbatteries for AD.
125-200 MRCA? Goodlord man, they are not even close to a downselect yet. Expect only20 odd nos by 2017 optimistically (if they sign by 2012). Has theM2k deal been signed off on yet - there is another impasse iirc?IAF should have 40-60 LCA, 270 MKI, 60 Fulcrums SMTs, and about 20MMRCA, 100 Bisons, and possibly 200 Jag+Floggers. About 450 BVRcapable multirole fighters, 200 pure strike a/c if all goes asplanned
125-200架的MRCA？我的老大，他们甚至连零头都搞不定。到2017年，最乐观的估计（如果2012年就签下合同）也只有20来架次。如果M2000的合同取消的话，会是另一个僵局。印度空军应该要有40-60架LCA，270架mki，60架mig-29升级版，以及大约20架次MMRCA，100架mig-21，还有大概200架的美洲虎+mig-23.如果一切按照计划，会有大约450架具有超视距空战能力的战斗机，200架纯攻击机。
I am hoping thatthis J20 causes a LOT of dhoti shivering - and the pace ofprocurement is ramped up considerably. My guess is that if theyfind the J20 maturing quickly (which is quite likely since thechinese don't show anything unless they are sure it is somewhatmature ala J10), the IAF will land up buying a few PAKFAs (notFGFAs) ad hoc ala T90s, and I wouldn't blame them. Perhaps the MKIMLU will start earlier as well.
我希望这个J-20能引起极大量的恐惧——这样获取战机的步子就会大幅度加快。我估计，如果他们发现j20很快就完善了（这个很有可能，因为中国人在没有确认达到足够的完成度之前，不会透露任何东西。J10就是例子），那么印度空军就会赶快买上几架PAKFA（还不是FGFA)就好像买T90那样。我不会责怪他们。此外，也许MKI会提早开始中期延寿升级。
Further, the legacybirds (teens, fulcrum) and even Gripen may as well kiss the MRCAgoodbye. Rafale vs. Typhoon - a treat for BR jingoes should be onoffer.
此外，传统战机（F-18、MIG29）以及鹰狮都要和MRCA计划吻别。阵风VS 台风—英帝国沙文主义的威胁，应该被采购。
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Vivek K
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 12 Jan2011 00:12
引用：Cain Marko wrote:
125-200 MRCA? Goodlord man, they are not even close to a downselect yet. Expect only20 odd nos by 2017 optimistically (if they sign by2012).
Point taken CM.However, how many of the J-20 would be flying by then? By 2017 the270 MKIs would be in service though! And the FGFA would also benearing IOC by then(?).
引用CM。然而，到那时会有多少j-20能飞上天？到2017年，那270架MKI仍然在服役！而且到那时，FGFA也应该接近形成战斗力了。
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RamaY
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 12 Jan2011 01:19
引用Cain Marko wrote:
I am hoping thatthis J20 causes a LOT of dhoti shivering - and the pace ofprocurement is ramped up considerably. My guess is that if theyfind the J20 maturing quickly (which is quite likely since thechinese don't show anything unless they are sure it is somewhatmature ala J10), the IAF will land up buying a few PAKFAs (notFGFAs) ad hoc ala T90s, and I wouldn't blame them. Perhaps the MKIMLU will start earlier as well.
The sad part is thatpeople were sitting on their bottoms during demand-rules period andwill now pay dearly for their laziness as the suppliers demandinflated prices to accommodate the demandschedules.
杯具的是，在买方市场的时候人们只是坐着看，而现在就要为他们的懒惰付出高昂的代价，因为现在是卖方坐地起价。
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SaiK
Post subject: Re: China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 12 Jan2011 02:24
Finally, one may feel a little ease that PAK-FA will not be chineseinterest since they have their own fighter. Perhaps a saturn engineis the only one. They have long way to go, in the sense, AESAradar, passive sensors, and so many 5th gen aspects, just theshaping alone doesnt get there.
BTW, if pakisacquire about 100 odd J20s by 2020, we should be good with FGFA iswhat I read from other poster who wanted us to react to this.Rather react, I would say proactively, ddm shud support localprograms and not condemn it.
like it or not, ddmwill "REACT".. and the more once pakis startdancing.
终于，大家感到了一点轻松，因为中国对PAK-FA不感兴趣，他们有自己的飞机。也许一台土星公司的发动机，是仅有的那台。他们还有很长的路要走，搜索探测方面，AESA雷达、被动传感器，以及如此多的5代机特征技术，仅有个外形可不代表成功。
顺便说一下，如果巴基斯坦人在2020年得到了大概100来架j20，我们应该好好搞FGFA。有人在别的帖子说希望大家都反对FGFA，我想说的是，别搞反对，DDM要支持国产计划，而不是谴责它。
不管你喜不喜欢，DDM会做出“反应”，而且当巴基斯坦人开始动手之时，反应会更强。
【译者注：DDM不知道是什么的缩写，这句话翻得很勉强，烦请指教】
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【译者注：该论坛的一个超长贴……】
shiv
Post subject: Re:China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011Posted: 12 Jan 201106:20
I think the mistakethat is made about Chinese capabilities by many people who use thelay media as a source of information (such as us) is that we arecolored by western opinions. We cheerfully quote Carlo Coppor Bill Sweetman and other "experts" whose views may have littlerelevance to India. And those people are always talking from theviewpoint of their own nations and we have no business taking theirviews as seriously relevant for us.
MonsVeneris，我觉得我们对中国能力的误读来源于某些人，他们的信息来源就是缺乏专业知识的媒体（比如说我们的），我们都被西方的观点左右。我们乐意引用CarloCopp 或者 Bill Sweetman式的专家评论，其实他们的评论和印度没什么关系。这些人都是从他们自己国家的视角出发谈问题，我们用不着太看重他们的观点。
Chinabeing "a littlefaster than expected" or "several decades behind" is a westernviewpoint.
中国“比想象的快了一点”或者“落后几十年”都是西方的观点。
I don't think anyonewho seriously follows Indian science and tech has any illusionsabout China - although a bit of fun at China expense is alwaysnecessary for an internet forum. Unfortunately - while followingwestern media we do tend to dhoti shiver when the westerncommentator dhoti-shivers (or soot-boot-shivers) and we tend to go"Yay" when gora aadmi says "OK no problem". Gora aadmi often makesbullshit assessments about others.
我觉得认真对待印度科学和技术的人不会产生中国幻象，不过网络上拿中国开支取点乐还是有的。不幸的是，随着西方媒体（的散布），（我们成了跟随者）当西方评论员说印度恐慌（或者之类的恐慌）我们就变的恐慌，当goraaadmi【可能是评论员或者作家什么的】说“没问题”我们就说“欧耶”。Goraaadmi经常对别人做些垃圾评论。
Chinahas built a blackpainted futuristic looking aircraft and flown it once. That putsChina ahead of every country on earth that has never designed andflown any aircraft and indicates an active design bureau andscience establishment where people are given the freedom to workand protected from criticism the way the LCA team was protectedfrom external and home grown contempt. If the system works it willproduce some results.
中国做了一个黑色非传统外形的飞机并且试飞了一次。这就使得中国领先于世界上还没有设计和试飞过飞机的国家，这也说明存在着保护员工自由，使他们免受批评的设计局和科研机构，LCA团队就是以这种方式免受外界和内部的轻视。如果这种体系正常运行就能产生一定的成果。
But in high tech therace is even longer. My ballpark estimate of the number of flyingairliners in the world today may be 20 or 30,000. 95% of theengines are sourced from a handful of western companies. Thereliability and efficiency of those engines is noteworthy with somemodels having notched up tens of millions of hours of failure freeflight. This is not an easy record for anyone to match. But onemust start somewhere. The problem with starting late is that youwill be behind for years. If you create a reliable design X - itwill take you some years to prove it, and some more years afterthat to modify it to become lighter and more fuel efficient.Incremental improvements like this have been done on westernengines for decades now resulting in a situation where the newestengines from the west are lighter and more fuel efficient than theyused to be. That means aircraft can fly further with less fuel andhigher payloads. This means that a "stealth aircraft" from the westwith such an efficient engine will have those advantages andwestern observers will always look at Chinese designs (or futureIndian designs) and say "nyahaha - they are 20 years behind" andthe Ajai Shuklas of this world will always curse fellow Indians forbeing 20 years behind. It is only ignorance that causesthis.
不过高科技的征途还是很长的。我粗略的估算现在世界客机有20000-30000架。95%的飞机发动机供应商都是少数几家西方公司。他们的发动机可靠性和高效性引人注目是因为有些型号已经创下了几千万小时的无故障飞行的记录。这些记录任谁都不容易打破。可是总有个开始的。后发者的问题就是你还是会落后些年。如果你弄了个可靠的设计X——你要花些年头却验证他，验证完后还要花更多的年头改进以使它更轻，燃油效率更高。这些增量试验已经花了西方公司几十年来完成，最后的结果就是西方的发动机比你现在用的更轻更节油。这就意味着飞机能用更少的油飞得更远，载重更多。装着这种高效发动机的西方“隐形飞机”具备以上优点，西方的观察家们就会说中国的设计（以后是印度的设计）“啧啧~~他们落后20年”，然后这个世界的AjaiShuklas们就会诅咒落后20年的印度，可是他们都忽略了背后的原因。
You can be sure thata Chinese engine may not have all these refinements - but it willdo the job. It is easy to forget that the USSR caused soot-bootshivering in the west by using stainless steel (MiG 25) and enginesthat needed replacements after 100 hours of use. Even on this forumwe have mocked our own Russian derived aircraft for having anairframe life of 1000 hours while equivalent Western aircraft aretouted to have 3000 hours. This is basically Macaulay speaking. Wehave a lot of that.
可以肯定，中国的发动机不是最精致的——但它却管用。大家总是忘记，苏联用不锈钢造的飞机（mig25）配上每隔100小时就要更换的发动机，给西方带来了多大的恐慌。即便是在我们这论坛，我们也总是嘲笑自己的俄式战机只有1000小时的飞行寿命，而西方的却能达到3000小时。这些基本上是麦考利的调调，我们已经听得够多了。
Ultimately progressis about respecting what your own people do. Technology is nevereasy and there are always choices and compromises to be made. ifcountry X takes one road or makes a particular choice it does notmean that your own people are morons for not taking that road ormaking that choice. By all means respect the Chinese for theirachievements, and of course do not use western derived examples toshow that they are useless. But at the same time there isabsolutely no need to beat one's breasts and imagine that nothingis happening in India. We know where we need to go and will takeour own route to get there using what we have.
不幸的是，进步的大小取决于你的人民做了多少。技术从来也不简单，总是需要做出抉择和妥协。如果某国走了某条道路或者做了某个选择，并不意味着，只要你不走这条路或者做同样的选择你就是笨蛋。无论如何，我们要对中国人取得的成绩表示尊敬，当然也别用西方的例子来说明中国人的东西不管用。但是与此同时，显然也不必捶胸顿足想象着印度手足无措。我们对目标很明确，而且会根据我们的条件走自己的道路实现目标。其它连接：
世界看中国-歼20隐形战机首飞 看看巴基斯坦和印度网民的评价（1）
世界看中国-歼20隐形战机首飞 看看巴基斯坦和印度网民的评价（2）
世界看中国-歼20隐形战机首飞 看看巴基斯坦和印度网民的评价（3）
世界看中国-歼20隐形战机首飞 看看巴基斯坦和印度网民的评价（4）
世界看中国-歼20隐形战机首飞 看看巴基斯坦和印度网民的评价（5）
